Hi,
I'm wondering if "ground meat" is used at all in the UK for what in the UK is usually called "minced meat."
I looked up "ground meat" and found this on Wikipedia:
Ground meat (usually called minced meat or occasionally mince outside North America) is meat finely chopped by a meat grinder or a chopping knife.
I then looked up "minced meat" in the COCA corpus and found only a few results. So, obviously, Americans prefer to say "ground meat."
I then looked up "ground meat" in the BNC corpus and found no results; looked up "minced meat" and still no results. I must have done something wrong.
So is "ground meat" used at all in the UK?
Thanks!
entangledbank
Senior Member
English - South-East England
Well there are no results on BNC for "mince" either, right now, or for "meat", so BNC is having one of its all too frequent naps. Let's use Ngram Viewer instead, and we do indeed find big differences for BrE http://books.google.com/ngrams/grap...start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=6&smoothing=3 and AmE http://books.google.com/ngrams/grap...start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=5&smoothing=3. There is a strong preference for "ground meat" in AmE, "minced meat" in BrE, with "mincemeat" common in both possibly because of non-literal uses, grinding people into mincemeat*.
'Ground' to me suggests a much more thorough crushing, like ground coffee and being ground into the dirt.
* No, most of the books seem to be using it literally.
Which BNC did you search?
I have just done a search, and see 7 occurrences of minced meat, 22 occurrences of minced beef, 9 occurrences of minced pork, 8 occurrences of minced lamb, and so on. (Actually ground beef came up 4 times.)
Ground meat sounds distinctly American. I think ground is used for thorough crushing, as entangledbank says, but also for dry items in BrE - therefore ground almonds, ground ginger, ground chilli. Chopped could be used for rougher work, for wet or dry items - chopped onions, chopped garlic, chopped tomato. (I think Americans might talk about minced garlic though.)
JulianStuart
Senior Member
English (UK then US)
My experience, from cooking with both, is that ground beef from the US and mince(d beef) from the UK are very similar in consistency and size of the "bits". The US also uses the term for pork, turkey (lamb is not eaten that much in the US). The other "ground" (non-meat) stuff in the US is also, as elsewhere, much finer, like pepper, ginger, cumin, nuts etc.
I accessed the BNC through the University of Lancaster* portal and had the same results as natkretep. By the way, don't forget, entangledbank, that mincemeat, in BE at least, is more often made of fruit than of meat.
* get to it from http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ - registration is free
with "mincemeat" common in both possibly because of non-literal uses, grinding people into mincemeat.
In American English, "mincemeat" is a sweet pie filling (I think it's mince pie in BrE) which originally contained some meat but in modern times it is generally made mostly of apples and raisins. It's not very popular anymore, but you sometimes see it around Christmas time.
Bevj
Allegra Moderata (Sp/Eng, Cat)
English (U.K.)
In BrE use, mince pies are made from pastry and mincemeat 
I can assure you they are still popular.
Minced meat is often just called 'mince' and is the beef/pork/etc. 'ground' meat.
pwmeek
Senior Member
English - American
(AE) I would used "ground" to indicate meat that has been forced through a plate with holes and then had the extruded meat cut into very short pieces; I would use "minced" to indicate meat cut into very fine pieces by use of a very sharp knife or cleaver. The results are similar, but the crushing and extruding may break more cell walls and let the juice out (which may be good or bad, depending on the final use).
It may be that I think this is the proper meaning of "minced" because of its parallel use in relation to things like garlic and onion which are frequently minced by that method.
(AE) I would used "ground" to indicate meat that has been forced through a plate with holes and then had the extruded meat cut into very short pieces; I would use "minced" to indicate meat cut into very fine pieces by use of a very sharp knife or cleaver.
I (BE) would use 'chopped' as is usually used with vegetables and herbs.
It may be that I think this is the proper meaning of "minced" because of its parallel use in relation to things like garlic and onion which are frequently minced by that method.
Indeed, Online Etymology dictionary:
mince (v.) late 14c., "to chop in little pieces," from O.Fr. mincier "make into small pieces,"
panjandrum
Senior Member
English-Ireland (top end)
I'm really surprised to find that I can't find previous threads on this topic
As I understand it, AE "ground <meat variety>" is just the same as BE "minced <meat variety>".
So I can wander down to my friendly butcher and ask for minced beef, minced lamb, minced pork, ... .... .....
But if I wander down to my friendly butcher and ask for "mince", he will sell me minced beef.
Hermione Golightly
Senior Member
British English
A British speaker could also say 'mince' by itself because minced beef is the most usual sort. If the meat is not beef, then they would say 'minced [-]'.
zaffy
Senior Member
Polish
A British speaker could also say 'mince' by itself because minced beef is the most usual sort.
You mean I might say this?
"I've got two packs of mince."
Hermione Golightly
Senior Member
British English
Yes, in the UK.
But I would specify the quantity. How much is a 'pack'?
zaffy
Senior Member
Polish
because minced beef is the most usual sort.
So if you heard this, would you assume I meant beef right away? Or not really and you would need to ask what kind of meat I meant?
"I need to buy mince."
kentix
Senior Member
English - U.S.
"I've got two packs of mince."
And that would be beyond mysterious in the U.S.
Welsh_Sion
Senior Member
Welsh - Northern
Whereas in Scotland, in the Scots language, mince also means, 'nonsense, rubbish': Scotslanguage.com - mince n. nonsense, rubbish
British English
Most people would assume you meant beef that been minced.
zaffy
Senior Member
Polish
And that would be beyond mysterious in the U.S.
So "mince" sounds mysterious to your Amercian ears and how about "beef mince"? Does it sound off? Non native? Or would you think it must be BE?
So "mince" sounds mysterious to your Amercian ears and how about "beef mince"? Does it sound off? Non native? Or would you think it must be BE?
For those who know British English, it sounds British. For those who don't, "mince" is only a verb. It appears as an adjective in the compound noun "mincemeat" which is the filling for a pie that originally contained meat, but is now mostly raisins. If you were to say "mince(d) meat", most people would think of this sweet filling that doesn't contain meat.
Hermione Golightly
Senior Member
British English
Tesco is a shop and must clearly identify the products. People talking is something completely different.
zaffy
Senior Member
Polish
So I believe these are likeable conversations, right? Can you please share your thoughts?
AE:
A: Tom, can you pick up some ground beef on your way home?
B: How much?
A: I guess, a pound will do.
BE:
A: Tom, can you pick up some mince on your way home?
B: How much?
A: I guess, 500g will do.
So I believe these are likeable conversations, right? Can you please share your thoughts?
AE:
A: Tom, can you pick up some ground beef on your way home?
B: How much?
A: I guess (that) a pound will do.
There's no comma in the third sentence. "Likeable" is not the word you want. A's uncertainty seems a little odd (particularly if Tom is likely to buy prepackaged one pound increments so that his only option is to buy twice as much.
AlpheccaStars
Member
English - American
In American cookbooks, the verb "mince" is used to mean to chop herbs, onions, ginger or garlic very very finely. It releases the flavor of the ingredient.
eg. We mince onion, scallions and parsley, but not potatoes or carrots. Those are chopped or sliced.
"Ground" is the past participle of the verb "grind." It means that the ingredient was put through a grinder. There are meat grinders and coffee grinders, and some have a control for the fineness or coarseness of the resultant product.
So there is (finely / coarsely) ground coffee, ground pork and ground beef.
Minced beef is finely chopped with a knife, not put through a grinder.
I somewhat disagree with AlpheccaStars. I would normally chop most of those
very very finely
eg. We mince onion, scallions and parsley, but not potatoes or carrots.
I would usually chop all those things. Minced onion would be cut into pieces about 1mm. I would only do that if I wanted it to "disappear" into a sauce.
zaffy
Senior Member
Polish
In American cookbooks, the verb "mince" is used to mean to chop herbs, onions, ginger or garlic very very finely.
The word mince is definitely used with garlic in recipes here.
I see. I looked it up in YT and found this. I guess it works pretty much the same as chopping, especially that BE would use "chopping" to describe this cook's action, as noted above.
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zaffy
Senior Member
Polish
In American cookbooks, the verb "mince" is used to mean to chop herbs, onions, ginger or garlic very very finely. It releases the flavor of the ingredient.
So "mincing" is cutting with a knife, but it would still be weird to ask an American to mince beef, as this verb doesn't collocate naturally with meat, right?
Keith Bradford
Senior Member
English (Midlands UK)
So "mincing" is cutting with a knife...
It's not rocket science: you mince things with a mincer (or nowadays a food-processor), you chop things with a chopper (or a sharp knife). The packs of minced/ground beef you buy in any supermarket, and the loose stuff you buy at a butcher's have been through the machine. If you want it chopped, buy a steak and a sharp blade and do the work yourself.
(Elizabeth David strongly recommends chopping very fine when preparing minced-beef dishes because she says the meat remains juicier. Much as I love her, I rarely follow her advice. As another writer said: "Life's too short to stuff a mushroom".)
... it would still be weird to ask an American to mince beef, as this verb doesn't collocate naturally with meat, right?
In America: right.
In Britain we say things differently, that's all.
So "mincing" is cutting with a knife, but it would still be weird to ask an American to mince beef, as this verb doesn't collocate naturally with meat, right?
If you were making steak tartare, it would make sense to mince the beef with a knife. That is a situation in which you want tiny pieces of meat and you do not want it to look like ground meat / hamburger meat.
AlpheccaStars
Member
English - American
If someone said "minced beef" to me, I would think they were talking about "chipped beef," not hamburger!
It is definitely a British English item.
Loob
Senior Member
English UK
If someone said "minced beef" to me, I would think they were talking about "chipped beef," not hamburger!
[...]
For anyone who, like me, had no idea what AlpheccaStars meant by "chipped beef", here's Wiki on the subject:
Chipped beef is a form of pressed, salted and dried beef that has been sliced into thin pieces.
kentix
Senior Member
English - U.S.
Packard
Senior Member
USA, English
And that would be beyond mysterious in the U.S.
I agree. In the USA I would more likely hear someone say, "Don't mince your words" than "two all-beef minced patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on a sesame seed bun".
